Posts by Fred Franztone

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

A lot of inference going on here. Just to reiterate, my dad hasn't mentioned his talk to me; the invite came from my sister and I don't believe she's asking on behalf of my dad, they don't live together. If my dad wanted me there he would ask me himself. It may be my dad's first public talk at a kingdom hall but it isn't his first public speaking gig, he used to work in sales.

If my dad were to invite me personally then it would be different, although I still don't think I would go, for the reasons I've already stated. I detest the Watchtower and everything it stands for; I'm an apostate, an atheist, and by Watchtower standards an immense sinner. If I were to invite my dad to watch me give a talk on evolution, he would not come, and I would not expect him to. Likewise, I'm not setting foot in a kingdom hall if I don't have to, they make my skin crawl.

Going to a wedding or funeral at a kingdom hall isn't going to give anyone false hope as these occasions are not about the organisation. Public talks however are about the organisation. Those who are telling me I should go are making a lot of assumptions about the situation based on limited knowledge of it. I never for a minute implied that I was considering going or wanted convincing; all I asked for was advice on how to diplomatically decline the invitation. It should have been evident that I have many reasons for not wanting to go, some of which I think it's pretty clear are too personal for me to share. No big deal indeed...

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

I suppose it's an angle; they know that they can't invite me to attend for a circuit overseer or a memorial because those are tedious even for them to endure. A close family member giving their first talk however... there's a gimmick there.

The upside is that my dad can never have another first talk, so it will probably be the last time that I'm invited for a while. I wasn't even invited to my other sister's baptism, so it's not like I'm invited to every uncommon occurrence; in fact it's the rarity of the invitations which has left me feeling a little flustered.

What bugged me about the invitation was that it contained the words: 'no pressure', which felt a little disingenuous. There is always pressure with this religion; it's life or death in their eyes. When you write: 'no pressure', you're writing it because you know that you are in fact applying unwelcome pressure.

Anyway, I will be going with the busy 'excuse', because it's true, I'm too busy living my life to take time out for religion.

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

I think that far from being supportive, my attendance would be a distraction. I haven't been inside a kingdom hall for 12 years, and I fear that it would divert attention away from what should be my dad's day. He's a big boy now, I'm sure he can get through a public talk without my support.

I do wish him well, but the thought of being in a kingdom hall and listening to (even a mere 30 minutes of) the watchtower's propaganda makes me feel quite unwell, and it would probably make me feel even worse to hear it coming from my own dad.

More importantly, my being there would give my family false hope that I may come back to the religion, and I don't want to do that to them; I don't want to toy with their emotions. It would benefit neither myself nor my family for me to go, it would benefit no one.

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

Keep it friendly and non-confrontational. You can decline and still them well.
"Thanks for the invite. I wish I could! Give dad my best!"
Short, sweet, nice.

I think I will be going with something like that on this occasion. Thank you all for your suggestions, it's interesting to see how a variety of people approach this kind of situation.

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

"Thank you for the invitation. My conscience will not allow me to set foot in a Kingdom Hall. I am willing to discuss the reasons with you if you like, but be aware that such a discussion may be damaging to your faith. I will leave it up to you to initiate the conversation if you wish."

I think that's a little formal and apostate-sounding; I've no intention of de-converting her, I'm happy for her to live her life if she'll let me live mine. I don't want to come across as haughty or superior. I may just have to say that I'm busy on this occasion, as anything else will likely sound too stand-offish and could be damaging to familial relations. This is the first time she's asked since I left so I doubt it'll be happening too often.

We have also had invitations. If you do not explain to them why you won't attend, they will just continue to invite you. If you feel comfortable, speak from your heart. Be honest.
We have had to do this with our family. We told them we love them and nothing will change that. We will be there for them BUT if you don't believe in the doctrines, tell them.
You have one advantage, you are not baptized.
If you dodge them, they will just come back to you with more invites.
If people WANT to be in your life, they will, If not, at least you were honest with them. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

It's frustrating because I have had these conversations with my family, albeit not for many years now. It just doesn't seem to go in, they always believe it's possible that I may come back. It makes everything smoother if the topic just never comes up. It's difficult to know how to approach this; I may use the busy card this time and see how long it is till I receive another invitation.

27

Invited to a talk: What to do?

by Fred Franztone in

jw
friends

my sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk.

i don't live particularly near to my family, but i'm not too far from them to make the journey, and i am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if i were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.. i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and i would like to keep it that way; i only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service.

i don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so i need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.. i've considered saying that i'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and i'd rather she got the message that i'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.. any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?.

Fred Franztone

My sister texted me last night with an invitation to watch our dad give his first ever public talk. I don't live particularly near to my family, but I'm not too far from them to make the journey, and I am on good terms with them, having never been baptised and so not disfellowshipped; they don't shun me and likely wouldn't even if I were disfellowshipped, it's not in their character.

I haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 2006, and I would like to keep it that way; I only intend to step inside one again in the event of a family wedding or funeral service. I don't want to be rude to my sister, ignoring the text isn't an option, so I need a diplomatic way of declining her invitation.

I've considered saying that I'm busy, but this leaves things open for her to ask again in the future, and I'd rather she got the message that I'm not interested, without me having to say so in an explicit way.

Any suggestions from those who have been in a similar situation?

27

Weird, weird. Newest internet debate, Laurel or yanny?

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

i heard laurel and the wife heard yanny.

maybe someone can post the spoken word..

Fred Franztone

I give it a couple of days till snowflakes start claiming you're a racist if you hear Yanny.

39

Neanderthals - Meet Your Ancestors

by Earnest in

jw
friends

tonight (sunday, 13th may) at 20:00 on bbc 2 ... for neanderthal believers, agnostics and deniers.. this first programme in a two-part series investigates what neanderthals looked like and and how they lived in their ice age world.

it turns out that almost everything we thought we knew about them is wrong.

they weren't hunched, grunting, knuckle-dragging ape-men at all.

Fred Franztone

I notice fundies have started using Latin to conceal their intellectual shortcomings; it isn't working.

27

Weird, weird. Newest internet debate, Laurel or yanny?

by James Mixon in

jw
friends

i heard laurel and the wife heard yanny.

maybe someone can post the spoken word..

Fred Franztone

I'm capable of hearing both, probably because I'm a sound designer. It sounded more like Yanny when I first heard it; now I can make it shift at will.

It is technically Laurel though; it's the speak-and-spell function from the Laurel page on a dictionary website. I'm not sure if Yanny is even a word.

4

How is Babylon the Great a kingdom in Revelation 17:18?

by jwdoctrine in

in revelation 17:18 we read: "and the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”.

the watchtower's official position is that babylon the great is the worldwide false religion and nothing else but we never really think of babylon the great as a real country with physical borders and citizens?

i just finished writing an article on that, let me know what you think.how can babylon be a kingdom over other kingdoms in the last days?.

Fred Franztone

Babylon the great was code for the Roman empire